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dafoto
Romania
9 Posts |
 Posted - 03 March 2010 : 17:12:56
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At a QSS 3201SD we have error 6105-0003 = B laser light source status error.
I have tested vers. 4.00.024 and 4.03.001 of the Main System software
The Arc-net test finishes witout errors.
Laser self-diagnistic test values are R=40% G=40% B=67%.
Normally the error should appear from 75% above.
Minilab was installed new in April 2007.
Any advice? |
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LASEREPAIR
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 03 March 2010 : 22:06:00
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Doesn't matter how many percent Laser self-diagnostic software shows. Error appears even if the gun finally is near OK, but current exceeded 1050 mA upon warm-up. The focus is that when Type B laser will still be fine, Type A (or FF) gives error, because of Laser Driver PCB internal software restrictions.
You have three options:
1. Try Laser Reset button from the Service Menu.
2. Try newer type of Laser Driver PCB J391160 instead of old J390973. Latest PCB is cheap and doesn't care too much about the gun, so it might work.
3. Laser unit has to be repaired.
http://laserepair.info |
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dafoto
Romania
9 Posts |
Posted - 04 March 2010 : 04:01:10
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Dear Dmitry,
Thank you for the information.
I have checked with my colleague in the field the laser drivers PCBs and in the machine for B is type J391160. He also has with him for testing purposes laser driver PCB J390973, but he didn't yet test it.
The laser type is FF with S/N B2100701.
When you say in your explanation "laser driver PCB internal software restrictions" does not this depend on software version which is read during software upgrade in each PCB?
Again, I must say that my colleague tested versions 4.00, 4.01 and 4.03. There was no change of error.
Would you be so kind to post again some advice? |
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kodak_service
Russia
105 Posts |
Posted - 04 March 2010 : 07:18:33
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| Unfortunately, you have one way only - repair of laser unit. |
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LASEREPAIR
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 05 March 2010 : 00:59:42
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My colleague Igor (kodak_service) is right, you have no other chances except to repair this unit.
It doesn't matter what version of system program you use. We were talking about microcontroller firmware of J390973/J391160. In your case (Type FF laser B21) Blue gun will not work at all with J390973. Do not waste time of your field engineer. |
Edited by - LASEREPAIR on 05 March 2010 01:01:38 |
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dafoto
Romania
9 Posts |
Posted - 05 March 2010 : 05:05:30
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Thanks both for the answers.
Even though, I am not happy yet with the investigation.
I forgot to mention that after the error, if we press NO,CLEAR laser enter in worm-up for 8 minutes and then the minilab works fine with no errors all day long. Only when you shut down, then the error occurs again at initialization.
Yesterday we changed the external AOM which originally was Panasonic 24K II with a new one we had on stock Matsu@?#@%@a 24K II. The error 6105-0003 continued to appear, but at laser test, values changed dramatically R=30% G=30% B=38%.
Printing a daily set-up photo it turned yellow, we could perform the corrections two times and then 18 step photo was OK. But again, after shut-down and start-up the error appears again.
Another step was that we boroughed from another customer another laser together with drivers by side for testing purposes.
Laser is type A with S/N A8701479 with laser driver PCBs J390973 for B and G, we changed the laser and PCBs and we had:
- error didn't appear anymore
- we had shfit of yellow colour of about 1 inch with original AOMs
- we changed again only B external AOM and the shift desapeared
My conclusion after all this is that it seems that the fault comes from the internal AOM for B and not from the weakness of the B beam gun.
My question now is - are the internal Panasonic AOMs the same for QSS 32 systems as for QSS 30 systems? |
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LASEREPAIR
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 05 March 2010 : 11:58:55
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Well...
1. When you put another Panasonic AOM Driver, it seemd that this one is worser than the first one. Try new type Noritsu genuine AOM Driver in Iron case.
2. When you put Type A laser with its 973 drivers, Yellow shift problem indicates that AOM Driver is bad enough and must be replaced. You did this and laser unit Type A is finally fine.
3. Your conclusion is wrong. AOM system and Laser control system are two separate things. Each one doesn't know anything about the presence of another. If you have only 6105 Laser Control error - this means you have bad laser gun. As I already told you, this gun even can be almost fine, but during start-up, when Driver PCB tries to find the best parameters for the gun, the current exceeds for a while 1050 mA. This is enough for Blue Laser driver PCB to generate error 6105. It's understandable that you have Error 6105 only at mornings during warm-up, then system stabilizes parameters and minilab is working fine. But this will last for a while. Then, after a couple of weeks (or months) the problem will go deeper. Please note that laser gun is dying slowly.
4. Yes, they are the same, but I do not suggest bring old AOMs to the newer unit. They will be definitely worser than the same from the unit with fewer hours. Optical fatigue can not be turned backwards. |
Edited by - LASEREPAIR on 29 October 2010 03:58:19 |
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yustas
Russia
195 Posts |
Posted - 05 March 2010 : 23:22:50
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Neither AOM nor AOM-driver are not at the bottom of this error 6105.
You have a deteriorated LD in laser module or you have malfunction in temperature optimization in laser module.
It requires a laser repair in any case.
www.minilablaser.com |
Edited by - yustas on 05 March 2010 23:38:54 |
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dafoto
Romania
9 Posts |
Posted - 06 March 2010 : 11:43:35
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Thanks again for the informations.
Yes, you are right regarding external AOM and cristal AOM doesn't have anything to do with our error.
Well, yesterday making some investigations and conector check arround Laser driver PCBs box, the error disappeared after power-up. Even this morning at start up the error didn't appear anymore.
we are now with all original components of the minilab, initial set-up was performed and everything works fine.
As a curiosity, we made again the laser self diagnostic check and now we have R=30% G=30% B=56%.
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LASEREPAIR
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 06 March 2010 : 12:31:09
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Neither deteriorated LD in laser module or laser's temperature optimization malfunction caused 6105 problem in relatively fresh FF laser units. This problem came from the earlier Type A1 (together with new Shimadzu guns). We investigated douzens and douzens such units and have found that all LD's are fine and all Peltier element managed properly. It has taken about two years to recognise what is the real problem.
The source of issue is factory defect which could ruin Noritsu company. Waveguider is moved from it's precise position and the output of laser gun decreased drastically. We can repair this problem in about 90% of Greens (error 6106) and in about 75% of Blue (error 6105). The rest of guns are beyond repair and we developped our own custom-made guns to fit QSS32-33 Types A and FF layout to put them instead of dead original guns.
I never heard that someone else does similar job, refining QSS32-35 lasers Types A and FF with 6105 and 6106 errors. Please post here if I am not right.
http://laserepair.info |
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dafoto
Romania
9 Posts |
Posted - 07 March 2010 : 06:10:54
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I must recognize that I am amazed about the studies and knowledge developed by you in laser problems. Congratulations.
When from different causes the laser beam strengh is dimmed, this means that the Laser control PCB gives more current to the LD in order to compensate the problem.
Causes may be:
- as you say inprecise postion of waveguider
- "tyred" old external AOM
Does this affect lifetime of the LD, making it shorter?
On the other hand you didn't say anything about what happened yesterday when checking arround Laser driver PCB, the machine started to work without errors. Could it have been from some poor contact, or ...? |
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LASEREPAIR
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 07 March 2010 : 12:43:59
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Well... Yes, you are right, if the power of laser beam is going dimmed, Laser Control PCB tries to compensate this by increasing current on LD. But the Photo diode is situated into the Laser Gun, next the mirror, so the system can not compensate anything in case of bad AOM or AOM driver. When LD is deteriorated or there are any other problems in chrystal area, the current will go up till the maximum limit (to prevent LD burning) then the power of the beam will going down because PCB can not compensate dimming anymore. Before this point you may have "Yellow shift" problem (http://laserepair.info/junk.shtml) in QSS32-35 or synchronous sensor error 6073 in QSS30-31, but when the current reached the limit, error 6105/6106 will pop up.
In general words, the lower current of LD saves it's life and the high current makes it shorter. But if Laser Control PCB is being increased the current to pump the gun day by day, it means that LD is already being deteriorated and there is too late to save its life. Frontier's minilabs have the window to control mA of the guns.
The problem described above in this thread is one of few excerptions and is another story. Operational current could be above the upper limit (tenth of second is enough to generate error) because of bad contact. In this case PCB recognised that something went wrong and 6105/6106 appeared. Usually, if this problem exists you can check the temp of the connectors and find them warm because near 1A for LD + 1-5A for TECs and some extra for L/4 - too much if there is an additional resistance in bad contact. |
Edited by - LASEREPAIR on 29 October 2010 04:17:24 |
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dafoto
Romania
9 Posts |
Posted - 07 March 2010 : 16:23:23
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| Thanks Dmitry for the explanations. |
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yustas
Russia
195 Posts |
Posted - 08 March 2010 : 22:42:16
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Laser gun by Shimadzu is ureasonably complicated in construction.
I suggest that certain points in contract do not allow Noritsu Koki to refuse of its usage in exposure units.
Hence we have so ugly working laser units so far.
Dmitry is absolutely right that in some cases this LD is impossible for restore.
We also on the final stage of tests of our own laser gun.
Unfortunately we have been testing them not for a long time to say that they are VERY reliable... They works fine for three monthes on real labs in our own labs network.
Time will show...
I hope we will introduce new product very soon if they would work error-free for 6 monthes.
Regards,
Eugene Dimov
www.minilablaser.com
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Edited by - yustas on 08 March 2010 22:48:44 |
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ertan.noritsulab
Turkey
64 Posts |
Posted - 11 March 2010 : 15:37:23
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b laser gun is defective....
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ertan.noritsulab
Turkey
64 Posts |
Posted - 11 March 2010 : 15:38:29
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b laser gun is defective....
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zeal
India
33 Posts |
Posted - 12 March 2010 : 14:58:19
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| thanks for all |
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montien
Thailand
14 Posts |
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LASEREPAIR
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 06 November 2010 : 08:18:47
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To all about montien:
Why such guys can not make their own pictures but prefer to copy and paste my web content? It seems that my pictures are standard in the industry.  |
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pavanhd
India
12 Posts |
Posted - 09 November 2010 : 00:14:11
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At a QSS 3202 pro we have error 6105-0001 = B laser light source status error.
How to tested Laser self-diagnistic
Any advice? |
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LASEREPAIR
USA
89 Posts |
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Proven_s
1 Posts |
Posted - 05 December 2010 : 18:21:55
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| Hi :) |
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QSS 3201 - error 6105
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